CO129-074 - Lieut. Governor Caine & Sir Robinson - 1859 [6-12] — Page 383

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Attorney General.--I shall require the Governor's polite jand complimentary epistle to be handed into Court.

Acting Attorney General. Certainly, what is the date Attorney General. Those who invented these iniquities adjusted the dates. (To Mr Cleverly.) You have spoken of a majority and a minority in connection with the report who were they? -

Mr Cleverly--I do not think it is necessary to say who they were. It is in confidence among ourselves.

Attorney General-A confidence which the Commis- sioners themselves have broken.:

Mr Cleverly.--Every knows it I believe.

Attorney General. Have you told Sir John Bowring who formed the majority →→→→→

Mr Cleverly--Yes, he asked me, to enable him to write home.

Attorney General.—Well, if you told him you can have no hesitation in telling the Court.

Mr Cleverly.-Mr Davies and Mr Scarth were the minority; Mr Lyall and Mr Fletcher were on the other side, and I gave the casting vote.

Attorney General. The commission previously con- tained two more members.

Mr Cleverly-Ah, I know nothing about that.

Attorney General.-Do you know why Mr Lyall's name was put on the list of members?

Mr Cleverly. I do not.

Attorney General-Are you sure Dr Bridges did not tell you

?

Mr Cleverly. He did not tell me,

Attorney General-Have you heard that it was because Mr Lyall took a warm interest in Dr Bridges's friend, Mr Caldwell, as his friend?

Mr Cleverly. I have, but I cannot tell from whom I heard it.

Attorney General-Were there any other divisions besides those mentioned in the report.

Mr Cleverly-I do not remember any others-it is possible there may have been others.

Attorney General. The draft report was discussed on Saturday and sent in on Monday. Is that correct?

Mr Cleverly.-The draft was made and discussed on Saturday, copied, I am sorry to say, on Sunday, and signed on Monday.

Attorney General-Are you sure it was not signed on Sunday?

Mr Cleverly-No, it was signed on Monday.

Attorney General. But between Saturday and Monday there was a change in that paragraph regarding Mr Cald well's fitness for a Justice of the Peace.

Mr Cleverly-I do not remember a change-It could not have happened on Monday.

Attorney General-Was any notice taken of the way in which Mr Caldwell interfered with the Chinese when giving their evidence?

Mr Cleverly.-I remember Mr Caldwell being directed not to put questions to Chinese.

Attorney General-Was that in consequence of ty protest?

Mr Cleverly.-Yes.

Attorney General.--Was it not also on account of cer tain gestures which he had made to Chinese when giving

their evidence?

Mr Cleverly. Yes, I thought his conduct improper and directed him to desist.

Attorney General. Then it was not wholly on account of my protest.

Mr Cleverly. There were two protests-one was about affinity and pedigree.

Attorney General--And in consequence of Mr Day's ruling Mr May told sixteen or twenty witnesses that they were not wanted.

Mr Cleverly.-Yes, that was the case. dence was not admitted,

Hearsay evi

Mr Cleverly With regard to what I stated just now, -it is right that I should say on behalf of Mr Caldwell that the gestures may have been to warn them not to go on so fast when giving their evidence against him,-and to allow answers to be taken down.

Attorney General. My protest went to impeach the legal doctrine as set forth by Mr Day.

Mr Cleverly. It went to show that it was against the practice of Courts.

Attorney General. Did you make any alteration in your line after that?

Mr Cleverly,-No-we went on as before.

Attorney General. But there was discussion. Was it by a majority you decided on not receiving hearsay evidence? Mr Cleverly. I do not remember how we decided. I think we were unanimous.

Attorney General-Was there no protest by any mem-; ber of the Commission?

Mr Cleverly. I do not remember any.

Attorney General.-About the burning of the papers- you have heard the evidence in this Court--Does it differ from that before the Commission?

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His Excellency has been informed that the Commission do not intend printing any more papers connected with the enquiry beyond the viva voce evidence with which you have been furnished and the report of which you have a copy. As you state your two letters of Protest to be very important papers and that you are without a copy of either of them, His Excellency has been pleased to order the originals to be forwarded to you. You will be so good as to return them with your Statement in Explanation on or before Friday next.

I have the honour to be

Sir,

Your most obedient and humble servant,

(Signed) W. T. BRIDGES,

Acting Colonial Secretary.

The Honourable

The ATTORNEY GENERAL.' The oral evidence was printed as it went on was it not? Mr Cleverly-Yes. Attorney General. - Consequently you were able to send the Council a printed copy with the Manuscript.

Mr Cleverly-A printed copy was nearly ready at the time;-but, in the first place, the report went in in Ma- nuscript. We asked the Governor regarding the printing, and mentioned the expense. He left us to use our own judgment, and finally we decided on printing the report only, and not the accompanying documents. The Gov- ernor authorised me to go to some expense. This was on the morning the report went in, and our functions had ceased. We determined, therefore, simply to finish print- ing the report, and leave Government to decide about the

rest.

Attorney General. Here is a letter among some others which I keep in the hope of seeing them aid in the punish- ment of great offenders,it is dated the 23d of July from Dr Bridges to myself, and in ìt he leads me to infer that the report and documents are already in H. E.'s hands- In another letter, in Mr Masson's hands, I am told that a printed copy of the report and evidence shall be forward- ed to me.

How are these to be reconciled?

Mr Cleverly.I know that the printing of the report was not finished till the 27th of July, and the books were hot stitched 'till the next month.

Attorney General.—You see what Dr Bridges says in dis letter of the 28th of July-" the Commission do not intend printing any more papers connected with the en- quiry beyond the viva voce evidence "What could the overnor mean by that?

Mr Cleverly.I cannot understand what he meant by

;

letter, sent in a protest, in which he said he heard of report, Mr Davies, to whom I communicated Dr Bridges's such determination for the first time with much surprize

that it was both unfair and absurd &c.

Mr Cleverly.--That memorandum was sent to me, and I spoke to the Governor on the subject. This protest was in answer to a memo, of my own dated the 29th.

Attorney General.--But your memo. was in consequence my application to the Governor.

of

Mr Cleverly-Yes. Each member of the Commission wrote me an auswer according to his views.

Attorney General. This Court has no desire to censure of the non-printing of the documentary evidence is made you in the matter of that report --but you see the blame

by the Governor to rest on your shoulders.

Mr Cleverly. No blame attaches to me. In conse- quence of this communication I went to the Governor and said it was highly desirable the printing should be done. The Governor said he had nothing to do with it, and so the matter remained.

Attorney General. When was this? Mr Cleverly-About the 30th of July. Attorney General-Did the Governor tell you he had protest from me?

Mr Cleverly. He did not.

(reads.) To publish the report without the documentary Attorney General. This is the protest I refer to evidence was as futile as attempting to make bricks with- out straw;-and those documents have not been printed to this day?

Mr Cleverly. They have not.

Attorney General.-And yet you circulated the pamph- lets incomplete as they were.

Mr Cleverly.--Not so-not one. They have been cir- culated by the Governor. The Clerk of Councils handed me a number of copies to send to members of the Com mission, and 1 sent thein.

Court.--Both the private and public circulation came from the Governor.

Mr. Cleverly. Yes.

Attorney General.-And yet at that very time the same parties had passed on you a severe rebuke for sending in a supplementary letter to avert misconstruction of the report, and in which you said that you had no intention to censure Mr Anstey or Mr May.

Mr Cleverly. Quite true.

Attorney General. The reply ran to the effect that

Attorney General.-On the 29th of July, in consequence you were to mind your own business. this extraordinary statement that the Commission did intend printing the documentary evidence with the

Mr Cleverly-Something to that effect--he did not want our advice.